Yeah whats the threat behind adding a printer to print off a few documents?
Actually its a real one, your looking at it from the printer attacking the device (lets not stray off into idlescan territory here but yes Im aware of that too). Your document is in the buffer of that printer, which in the case of a networked one could quite happily be storing/sending off to a 3rd party your confidential document you just printed on it. Of course you wouldn't expect your salesforce bods to know/be aware of this leakage vector, but then thats why you lock it down to require a password and control access to it in a business environment. Quite a few companies Ive worked for mandate no 3rd party printers for this reason and its a disciplinary offence to print to a unauthorized device.
I stayed in a posh hotel in prague once (honeymoon!) and there was a tech conference in town. We nipped on the shared business pc's to browse a few news sites, and on the print server was a stuck job, which was a spreadsheet containing names/addresses/telephone numbers and other personal details of all the leaders and shakers in the tech conference (which came out after we removed the paper jam...) Salespeople are good at selling and mostly fail at security. Its a good job we're good at security even if we're mostly fail at selling and marketing. We each bring something unique to the table, and both are essential to the other, and mostly when security looks like we're being annoying to the layperson, we've got good reason..
Its a surge tank to prevent fuel surge on hard cornering stopping the fuel pump sucking air mid g forces, not a emergency measure. It has 5l of fuel in it to de-aeriate it also.
When the fuel in the tank has run out, you have effectively ran it dry, regardless of what residual fuel is left in the system. And shock horror, running it dry means you have to bleed the air out of it, just like lots of things both petrol and diesel since gas (as in gaseous, not fuel) doesnt pump very well.
What your missing, is there was a linux port to ipaq called familiar linux, and while that may have been niche and long dead, a lot of good ideas and projects kicking round the embedded world grew out of that or were uplifted by its needs. Gpe and opie wm for one.. Im sure that expertise and lessons learned went onto webos in the early days.
Most of the work on famiiar was by a few guys at HP's Labs, who were gifted time to the project by HP themselves, and there was a build cluster also supplied gratis by HP. I remember the huge amount of work contributed by Jamie of HP Labs who drove the pace of progress like mad.
Oh and a guy from europe caused loads of hassle on the mailing lists and eventually everyone fell out just when it was bearing fruit, and someone threw their toys out and sat on the domain etc, it was almost like certain individuals were against the whole thing because someone could see potential in what was being done right back there. What was his name now... Florian something or other. Might have been Florian Mueller...
I hope webOs goes on, giving us all more choice in the tablet market. Android is a secret walled monitored garden, IOS is a public monitored walled garden, and real linux on tablets is still very niche and in its infancy (kudos to Archos for their gpl compliance though!)
Idlescan. The average printer IP stack is completely sequential, therefore if you can route to one and connect to it, then spoof a packet from it to a host abusing the trusted relationship network admins establish with printers, then re-connect the print server, you can see if the host responded to its trusted friendly printer by looking at the pid of the packet. Theres no emphasis on bringing it into current random packet pid's because, well, its just a printer right? wrong...
You can map out entire network topologies with ease using this technique. nmap even has it as a scan mode , nmap -sI on the latest versions.
Does this mean Ill finally have to stop starting a default install window manager, opening up a terminal or ctl-alt-f1'ing to one and running screen with vi sessions etc for everything?
Joking aside (although most days I end up with screens full of terminals dotted round my desktop with gdb or top, tcpdump etc running in them) enlightenment e17 is pretty cool day to day for me as the UI just ends up as a entity to cater for my underlying terminal access and shortcut keys with a media player in somewhere to justify running a wm, but Ill try gnome3 on gentoo as the ebuild for it has been put in a special gentoo gnome3 overlay, and if I don't like it Ill go back to gnome2 or e17 or whatever else tickles my fancy.
I could be the sort of terminal fiend its aimed at, I for one lament the features removed out of wm's to make them more friendly for "normal users" (yeah I know I can hack the ctl alt backspace back into xorg every install, which I do) so the signs everyone is whinging about lack of buttons and dropdowns suggests I might just be their target market ;)
I like the gentoo way, try it if you like it keep using it. With Fedora I always got the feeling I was there as rh's pet guinea pig beta testers too.
My applause to the gnome guys for at least trying something new. Try it, dont like it move on, like it keep using it. Its a freedom of choice thing you know?
Vic, you need to direct your venom at autocad, not a linux distro. Theyre the people who are ignoring the entire *nix target market base.
Ill raise a glass to a old friend tomorrow, we'll fire up my zx81 and 16k rampack and play mazogs on the big projector for a laugh. Ive already introduced my 6yo to basic on it in the past, although we mostly use a emulator running on a xbox out of respect for fragile aging hardware.
j shifted p shifted p day it is ;)
What was really the spirit of the age was opening the thing up to add stuff. I remember a book called the explorers guide to the zx81 touting adding ram over the udg roms so you could have definable ascii, currah keyboards (although we rolled our own from a ancient industrial keyboard that we had to make the matrix to suit ourselves, being poor) and lots of other general vandal soldering activities. In fact my current zx81 was picked up a few years ago pristine because my original had long since died spewing kynar hookup from multiple places in the quest for comprehension and tinkery. Its spirit of mad hardware hackery lived on, they can't teach that with a degree ;)
meanwhile back in the real world, none of the above happens.
My 3 yo has made a few flights to the uk when we have been abroad with his nanna, who had a letter detailing the above. Never on any occasion has she ever been asked for it.
Meanwhile we've drove the chunnel and ferries maybe 20-30 times since they arrived, rarely with more than one parent onboard and the same story.
I was really elated, eCrime actually catch botnet master. Until right at the end the old adage sprang up. Only the stupid get caught.
What a complete amateur, using a server registered to himself, with the same traceable emails and a gmail email addy, ONSHORE in the uk.
He didnt put one in the eCrime unit in the article, he had one at a hospital that the sysadmin's traced back to the fasthosts, or thats at least how I read it.
If he had of compromised the eCrime network, id have had to tip my hat in slight distasteful respect at the balls but he didnt.
For the leniency, its about intent. He KNEW 100000% he was being lowlife scum, he went about it every day planning and scheming. Over a long period. Most assaults with short sentances are heat of the moment incidents, otherwise it becomes 10+ years for premeditated manslaughter or the like... Jail him with nothing more sophisticated than a red led commodore calculator and leave him to rot there...
Strip clubs are for end of contract pishups, first somewhere pc for everyone then the boys onward to the lapdancing outfit when pished, where you can all be naughty within limits, but not wake up with some or something unfortunate/blackmail photos etc.
Been there got the tee, and my mrs asked them to take me there to "get me ready and prepped to fly home, but in a controlled way"!
Goodbye old friend youve "served" us well and saved us from IIS and the oracle web server (am I the only one who remembers that and its amazing perl cartridge stability (sarcasm...).)
Ill raise a glass of beer for you tonight.
I can hear the sound of some embedded os people spluttering in the distance mind :)
Bouncing? sca was a simple fade up of a single colour font, mostly so they could fit it all into the bootblock without crunching. Refresh the old cells here :-
Started off with a A500 v1.2, one of the first batch in the uk of the german ones, and took to it like a duck to water while struggling with my c64 and assembler, straight in, write data straight to the chipset, trap the vb blanking interrupt ($0005c I think from memory) and sit in a loop doing something while watching for a btst #6,$bfe001 to register a 1 indicating someone pressed the left mouse button and all those lovely longword and word capable instructions, what a revelation! Lovely chipset to program for, copper and blitter just topped it off (and you could use the blitter to reprogram the copper and other funkyness they never really expected people to do). Had my fingers in some then bleedy edge games stuff and met a lot of demo sceners...
The memory allocation protection, well, there weren't such a thing as viruses until the SCA released their little wonder, they were more innocent times for sure...
Still got a scsi'd up A2000 with scsi cdrw/hd/tape drive/8086 bridgeboard card, flicker fixer with vga output and 11M of chip/fast ram. Its just for nostalgia, my days of software development on it are long since over, but I too raise a glass to the old girl and all that she's made possible.
For the cloanto prosecuting people, they say that to stop commercial exploitation of the roms and other people selling "emulator packages", rather than a bod in their bedroom finding adf's of it on the net etc. Its my experience you will have no problem finding the boot roms on the net for eg on the ever useful bootdisk.org etc.
Im with everyone else on commodore wrecking it through pure greed, what the hell were they on. I definately dont miss the days of getting my wallet emptied for months for a interface card, or any peripheral I wanted. They just saw us as a captive market once we'd bought the base box, and decided to milk us for every penny. And if you check the amiga specialist retailers still going, theyre still bleeding everyone for catweasels and buddah ide cards etc...
Register
16 posts • joined Monday 6th July 2009 12:33 GMT
Yeah whats the threat behind adding a printer to print off a few documents?
Actually its a real one, your looking at it from the printer attacking the device (lets not stray off into idlescan territory here but yes Im aware of that too). Your document is in the buffer of that printer, which in the case of a networked one could quite happily be storing/sending off to a 3rd party your confidential document you just printed on it. Of course you wouldn't expect your salesforce bods to know/be aware of this leakage vector, but then thats why you lock it down to require a password and control access to it in a business environment. Quite a few companies Ive worked for mandate no 3rd party printers for this reason and its a disciplinary offence to print to a unauthorized device.
I stayed in a posh hotel in prague once (honeymoon!) and there was a tech conference in town. We nipped on the shared business pc's to browse a few news sites, and on the print server was a stuck job, which was a spreadsheet containing names/addresses/telephone numbers and other personal details of all the leaders and shakers in the tech conference (which came out after we removed the paper jam...) Salespeople are good at selling and mostly fail at security. Its a good job we're good at security even if we're mostly fail at selling and marketing. We each bring something unique to the table, and both are essential to the other, and mostly when security looks like we're being annoying to the layperson, we've got good reason..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Oh yes, that's the car for me!
Its a surge tank to prevent fuel surge on hard cornering stopping the fuel pump sucking air mid g forces, not a emergency measure. It has 5l of fuel in it to de-aeriate it also.
When the fuel in the tank has run out, you have effectively ran it dry, regardless of what residual fuel is left in the system. And shock horror, running it dry means you have to bleed the air out of it, just like lots of things both petrol and diesel since gas (as in gaseous, not fuel) doesnt pump very well.
Stick to IT. Or maybe your mcse...
Familiar
What your missing, is there was a linux port to ipaq called familiar linux, and while that may have been niche and long dead, a lot of good ideas and projects kicking round the embedded world grew out of that or were uplifted by its needs. Gpe and opie wm for one.. Im sure that expertise and lessons learned went onto webos in the early days.
Most of the work on famiiar was by a few guys at HP's Labs, who were gifted time to the project by HP themselves, and there was a build cluster also supplied gratis by HP. I remember the huge amount of work contributed by Jamie of HP Labs who drove the pace of progress like mad.
Oh and a guy from europe caused loads of hassle on the mailing lists and eventually everyone fell out just when it was bearing fruit, and someone threw their toys out and sat on the domain etc, it was almost like certain individuals were against the whole thing because someone could see potential in what was being done right back there. What was his name now... Florian something or other. Might have been Florian Mueller...
I hope webOs goes on, giving us all more choice in the tablet market. Android is a secret walled monitored garden, IOS is a public monitored walled garden, and real linux on tablets is still very niche and in its infancy (kudos to Archos for their gpl compliance though!)
old news is bad news in this case
Idlescan. The average printer IP stack is completely sequential, therefore if you can route to one and connect to it, then spoof a packet from it to a host abusing the trusted relationship network admins establish with printers, then re-connect the print server, you can see if the host responded to its trusted friendly printer by looking at the pid of the packet. Theres no emphasis on bringing it into current random packet pid's because, well, its just a printer right? wrong...
You can map out entire network topologies with ease using this technique. nmap even has it as a scan mode , nmap -sI on the latest versions.
Fyodor as usual has a great write up of it :-
http://nmap.org/book/idlescan.html
hmmm i wonder
Does this mean Ill finally have to stop starting a default install window manager, opening up a terminal or ctl-alt-f1'ing to one and running screen with vi sessions etc for everything?
Joking aside (although most days I end up with screens full of terminals dotted round my desktop with gdb or top, tcpdump etc running in them) enlightenment e17 is pretty cool day to day for me as the UI just ends up as a entity to cater for my underlying terminal access and shortcut keys with a media player in somewhere to justify running a wm, but Ill try gnome3 on gentoo as the ebuild for it has been put in a special gentoo gnome3 overlay, and if I don't like it Ill go back to gnome2 or e17 or whatever else tickles my fancy.
I could be the sort of terminal fiend its aimed at, I for one lament the features removed out of wm's to make them more friendly for "normal users" (yeah I know I can hack the ctl alt backspace back into xorg every install, which I do) so the signs everyone is whinging about lack of buttons and dropdowns suggests I might just be their target market ;)
I like the gentoo way, try it if you like it keep using it. With Fedora I always got the feeling I was there as rh's pet guinea pig beta testers too.
My applause to the gnome guys for at least trying something new. Try it, dont like it move on, like it keep using it. Its a freedom of choice thing you know?
Vic, you need to direct your venom at autocad, not a linux distro. Theyre the people who are ignoring the entire *nix target market base.
Raise a glass
Ill raise a glass to a old friend tomorrow, we'll fire up my zx81 and 16k rampack and play mazogs on the big projector for a laugh. Ive already introduced my 6yo to basic on it in the past, although we mostly use a emulator running on a xbox out of respect for fragile aging hardware.
j shifted p shifted p day it is ;)
What was really the spirit of the age was opening the thing up to add stuff. I remember a book called the explorers guide to the zx81 touting adding ram over the udg roms so you could have definable ascii, currah keyboards (although we rolled our own from a ancient industrial keyboard that we had to make the matrix to suit ourselves, being poor) and lots of other general vandal soldering activities. In fact my current zx81 was picked up a few years ago pristine because my original had long since died spewing kynar hookup from multiple places in the quest for comprehension and tinkery. Its spirit of mad hardware hackery lived on, they can't teach that with a degree ;)
meanwhile back in the real world
meanwhile back in the real world, none of the above happens.
My 3 yo has made a few flights to the uk when we have been abroad with his nanna, who had a letter detailing the above. Never on any occasion has she ever been asked for it.
Meanwhile we've drove the chunnel and ferries maybe 20-30 times since they arrived, rarely with more than one parent onboard and the same story.
Nice theory, but that's all it is.
let down
I was really elated, eCrime actually catch botnet master. Until right at the end the old adage sprang up. Only the stupid get caught.
What a complete amateur, using a server registered to himself, with the same traceable emails and a gmail email addy, ONSHORE in the uk.
He didnt put one in the eCrime unit in the article, he had one at a hospital that the sysadmin's traced back to the fasthosts, or thats at least how I read it.
If he had of compromised the eCrime network, id have had to tip my hat in slight distasteful respect at the balls but he didnt.
For the leniency, its about intent. He KNEW 100000% he was being lowlife scum, he went about it every day planning and scheming. Over a long period. Most assaults with short sentances are heat of the moment incidents, otherwise it becomes 10+ years for premeditated manslaughter or the like... Jail him with nothing more sophisticated than a red led commodore calculator and leave him to rot there...
The title box is a load of cōleī
Strip clubs are for end of contract pishups, first somewhere pc for everyone then the boys onward to the lapdancing outfit when pished, where you can all be naughty within limits, but not wake up with some or something unfortunate/blackmail photos etc.
Been there got the tee, and my mrs asked them to take me there to "get me ready and prepped to fly home, but in a controlled way"!
Goodbye and fairwell
Goodbye old friend youve "served" us well and saved us from IIS and the oracle web server (am I the only one who remembers that and its amazing perl cartridge stability (sarcasm...).)
Ill raise a glass of beer for you tonight.
I can hear the sound of some embedded os people spluttering in the distance mind :)
betanews
Pearoast for the photocomp of the week? (B3ta...)
Glib response
Small and compiled with only what you need? Gentoo (he says recompiling the kernel on his gentoo xbox...
@james o'shea
You was sounding quite plausable there, until you mentioned his 180mph stunt was on a harley...
Was that 180mph between crank rebuilds or had they thrown it off the side of a cliff at the time?
The meaning of life (and death)
It should simply say "42" on the business side.
There might be a few less hhgttg fans around but its a small price to pay for coolness..
failing memories :)
@BigBear
Bouncing? sca was a simple fade up of a single colour font, mostly so they could fit it all into the bootblock without crunching. Refresh the old cells here :-
http://amigaviruses.wdfiles.com/local--files/sca/sca.anim.gif
Another one still with one
Started off with a A500 v1.2, one of the first batch in the uk of the german ones, and took to it like a duck to water while struggling with my c64 and assembler, straight in, write data straight to the chipset, trap the vb blanking interrupt ($0005c I think from memory) and sit in a loop doing something while watching for a btst #6,$bfe001 to register a 1 indicating someone pressed the left mouse button and all those lovely longword and word capable instructions, what a revelation! Lovely chipset to program for, copper and blitter just topped it off (and you could use the blitter to reprogram the copper and other funkyness they never really expected people to do). Had my fingers in some then bleedy edge games stuff and met a lot of demo sceners...
The memory allocation protection, well, there weren't such a thing as viruses until the SCA released their little wonder, they were more innocent times for sure...
Still got a scsi'd up A2000 with scsi cdrw/hd/tape drive/8086 bridgeboard card, flicker fixer with vga output and 11M of chip/fast ram. Its just for nostalgia, my days of software development on it are long since over, but I too raise a glass to the old girl and all that she's made possible.
For the cloanto prosecuting people, they say that to stop commercial exploitation of the roms and other people selling "emulator packages", rather than a bod in their bedroom finding adf's of it on the net etc. Its my experience you will have no problem finding the boot roms on the net for eg on the ever useful bootdisk.org etc.
Im with everyone else on commodore wrecking it through pure greed, what the hell were they on. I definately dont miss the days of getting my wallet emptied for months for a interface card, or any peripheral I wanted. They just saw us as a captive market once we'd bought the base box, and decided to milk us for every penny. And if you check the amiga specialist retailers still going, theyre still bleeding everyone for catweasels and buddah ide cards etc...