Microsoft has dusted off some hoary anti-Apple chestnuts in a new "Macs-suck-we-don't" web-based ad effort.
It must be back-to-school computer-buying time — and Microsoft's marketeers aren't going to let the Mac's sales surge continue without a fight.
Redmond floats a few reasons why a Windows PC is superior to a Mac on its new …
>> You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader
>Really?
Really!
A memory stick is not a generic memory card, it's a specific type of memory card that is different to an SD card. Most Pc's have multi card readers that read both SD and memory sticks. a few also read XD cards and compact flash.
They are being absolutely 100% truthful, however, in a way that is misleading if you don't know much about memory cards.
Really? Does anything even use those anymore. Even my Sony DSLR doesn't support any form of Memory Stick (including HG, Pro, Pro Duo, Micro and anything else). If Sony don't support them anymore I think you can safely assume they're dead in the water.
Bragging that a PC will support obsolete technology seems a pretty weird way to advertise it.
The worst (and indeed most telling) part is the thing about the mouse.
"If you're used to a PC..." tells you all you need to know.
The worst bit is: they are making the assumption that PC=Windows. However the mouse on my home PC works differently from the one at work, because my home PC doesn't run Windows. They are clearly trying to force people to believe there are only two desktop OS's in the world and if you buy a PC you only have one option. The funny thing is that they are obviously trying to catch 'em young to avoid another lost generation, but they're on a hiding to nothing there. My five year old son can operate Windows, KDE and OSX with equal ease, it took him no time to work out how to use the DVR as well. Kids these days are brought up with the concept of GUIs and have no problems adapting to new ones. So in a few years time differences in GUI will be insignificant to the majority of users.
The telling bit is: So they're not aiming this campaign at people who are used to Macs, they are aiming it at people who have PCs.
"My five year old son can operate Windows, KDE and OSX with equal ease" - Scary, scary times.
My five year old son can play football, hide and seek, tag, with equal ease, but knows little on how to use a PC. He's only 5 for Christ sake, he doesn't need to use one yet!
I prefer that my kids were out getting fresh air, exercising and playing rather than have them in teaching them my hobby.
"My five year old son can play football, hide and seek, tag, with equal ease, but knows little on how to use a PC. He's only 5 for Christ sake, he doesn't need to use one yet!"
Funny that my five year old does all the things yours does as well as ride a bike, swim, fly a kite and bodyboard. And he can use a computer, DVD player, STB and he's getting pretty good on the allotment too - his parsnips are the biggest on the site. Not a bad wee cook either so long as there's an adult to deal with the hot stuff. Plus of course he can read and write and count. And yes he does *need* to use a computer - they are on the curriculum at school.
Kids learn easilly and quickly. Just because they're only five you should not limit their activities, indeed the opposite is true they pick up new skills much quicker at that age. A five year old will generally learn a new skill much quicker than a ten year old and so much quicker than an adult it's scary. And the great thing is they don't tend to lose those skills in a hurry. They should try something new at least once a week. His new thing this week is camping.
but does a 5 year old really need to know how to use so many different operating systems?
My son can use the computer, ok it's only Windows XP and it's only very basic what he can do (go on the Cbeebies website for example), and he can use the TV and Sky.
"Kids learn easilly and quickly. Just because they're only five you should not limit their activities" - My point exactly. Rather than pushing my hobby onto my son, I'd rather him be out doing what he likes doing and finding his own interests.
"PCs running Windows 7 look and work more like the computers you're familiar with"
Why do they make the apparent assumption that everybody is familiar with Windows and nobody is familiar with anything else.
We used to have a manager (thankfully long gone) who wanted Windows everything, the problem was his argument against anything else was always that it was "non-standard". As if Windows is some sort of internationally agreed standard and everything else is deviant. MS clearly think the same way.
Microsoft have admitted they have lost a generation, but they are still pushing forward as if they haven't. They need to get rid of all the marketing drones who think like that and get in a new generation who will sell Windows as if it were a new product. That's always the best way to sell anyway - trying to sell something on the basis of it's being old and familiar is doomed to failure.
Some people buy things just because they're familiar and will buy nothing else, marketing doesn't work on these people because it isn't needed to make them buy what they already buy and it won't be heeded if it's trying to make them change. You've all met the man who's on his umpteenth new Ford and has never owned anything else and never will and his dad was probably the same.
Other people make decisions (not always wise ones) based on publicity which isn't always the same as advertising, something gets a mention somewhere and they think "ooh, that looks good, I'll try that". Marketing really works on these people, but it's got to have impact saying "buy this because it's familiar" really won't work on them, "buy this because it's new and exciting" might work.
Then there are people who do research and make informed decisions. Marketing can work on this group, but it has to be reasoned. Saying "don't buy anything else because it sucks" is not going to work because nobody making an informed decision is going to be stupid enough to listen to anybody listing the cons of the opposition without coming up with and real pros for their own product.
What was clever about the "I'm a Mac" stuff initially was that nobody had done anything like it before. It did make valid some comparisons, but mainly it was fresh and amusing. It got a bit stale after a while mainly because it had nothing new to say, but also it lost that freshness. It should have been killed off sooner. MS however are stuck in a rut fighting back against an ad campaign that is long gone. MS also have had nothing new to say for some time. The really worrying thing is that they seem to have nothing new to say about their apparently world beating new product, Windows 7. Also worrying is the fact that some of their major selling points for their OS have got nothing to do with their OS. Has the colour of the case or the hardware options in some PCs got anything to do with Windows? Nope.
For some people, a home computer that looks/works different to the one at work is a plus point. In much the same way as a couch looks/works different to a desk - we don't all want homes that are facsimiles of our offices
Most people are focusing on the just TWO OS, blinded to any alternatives: classic marketing.
When you buy batteries from a shop there are usually two brands: a cheaply priced one you have never heard of and a premium priced brand - given this choice, there are generally two sorts of customers: ones who buy the cheapest and ones who buy the branded one.
Microsoft cannot do cheapest, since Windows is a similar price to OS X (but cheaper hardware) and Linux is free.
Dumb:
It make people look at the competitor.
Part of the Microsoft - OEM deal is to advertise Windows.
I've not used Windows 7, but I'll assume it is just Vista with a service pack and name change. The network wizard in Vista seemed to be the same as the terrible one in XP - similar but not for a good reason. As a former XP user, some settings are very difficult to find in Vista.
Using OS X (in the Apple shop) there is a minute or so of culture shock and (as with Linux) things are set-up for you without going through a 'make you feel stupid' wizard (unfortunately Linux apes Windows in many ways).
Sent from my Linux netbook (that is too small to run Windows).
Agree with posters - as a Mac, Windows, Ubuntu user myself...
Sharing on a Mac - @Anonymous Coward, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 09:15 GMT
""you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing"
Surely that's a good thing. Especially given how many users never bother to change their default settings on either their router or their computer."
I agree. The default settings possibly have the lowest security.
Convicted monopolist boasting about its monopoly - MacroRodent, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 09:21 GMT
""And if most of the Windows computers at the school used OpenOffice for office work, instead or MS Office, Mac users, Linux users, Solaris users, FreeBSD users etc. would not notice much difference, since it works pretty much the same on all those platforms."
In that part of the ad, Microsoft is pretty much admitting it has the office suite monopoly, and you had better go along with it, or else..."
I agree. Their argument fails on merit as it is merely their legacy - which the poster below elaborates on:
"If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac."
"If most of the computers in your office or school run a different version of Windows, or a different version of their Office products, you may find it harder to get things done with a PC."
FTFY
"
My view?
Well, I own an apple mac book pro 17", run a desktop PC with Windows 7 and Ubuntu Linux and a Netbook with Windows XP, so:
"No blu-ray built-in to apple mac" claim? True, but I have an external blu-ray burner to attach. The barrier is cost for sure.
"No eSATA on high-end macs" claim? Nearly true, but latest mac book pro 17" (in fact that is why I was forced to spend more and buy this rather than lower spec models) still have ExpressCard/34 to add an eSATA card, Mac Pros also with expansion, but yes, a serious mistake on Apple's part to omit this capabaility from smaller Mac Book Pros and iMacs.
Ok I recently took the plunge and purchased the 17" Macbook pro, so far it's been the best laptop I have ever owned and I have owed several over the years including some from Alienware and other high end laptops. (I'm an IT veteran of over 25 years) I'm mostly a web security, architect and software designer these days, not a gamer and so far I am extremely pleased with it for what I need.
Few points to consider here:
Overall build quality - The MBP17 is by far one of the most solid well engineered laptops I have ever used. every detail appears to be well though out and not just thrown in there because it fits that way the way most PC laptops seem to be in comparison. It's less than half the thickness of my wife's 6 month old HP laptop (without it's bulging battery pack with it it's roughly 1/4 the thickness) and even though mine is a 17' and her's is a 15" mine weighs less. It's solid aluminum body while not colorful is classy, and I think makes the plastic ones look cheap personally. Small touches like a closing cover over the express card slot to keep dust out and the clever button that shows you the current battery charge without booking up are very nice. The mag safe charger cable and brick are much nicer than any PC power connectors I have used, no shorting or sparking if you connect a live cable. (Haven't we all at least once done this?)
CPU - All of the Macbook Pro's support Hardware Virtulization, even the lower end 13" models, most of the PC laptops you will find at the big box stores do not (or at least didn't as of a month ago when I was looking around) Anyone running windows 7 who wants to ever run a MS Virtual PC (aka windows XP mode) on their laptop will be disappointed after shelling out the cash for Windows 7 pro or Ultamate to find the hardware on their new PC won't support it. I do a lot of development so VM's are a must. Enterprise customers need the XP mode for legacy software.
Flexibility - You can run a PC on a mac, not the other way around. And with the latest Parellels Software they PC apps just show up in their own apps folder. Start up and shutdown of Windows 7 is faster than on a similarly configured PC (PC actually has more RAM maybee that's part of it but who knows.) The PC based apps I still use run fin without issues.
Office Apps - I run Office 2007 and 2010 on the PC's, Open office on my linux boxes, I run Apple's iWork package on my mac, mostly because it was less than half the cost of MS Office. Yes office has more bells and whistles but I find the items on the iWork easier to use to create stunning layouts, I even find myself using Adobe in-design less and Pages more and more.
The touch pad - it's a multi-touch pad, not a touch pad and yes it takes a while to get the hang of but is very intuitive and powerful. I have never been a fan of touch pads, in fact I hate them with a passion but this one is easier and works better than any I have ever used, and I almost never use my mouse anymore just the pad.
Battery - While I'm not seeing 9 hours on battery while actually doing work (I did bump the cable out one night and it ran on battery for over 10 hours idle though) I constantly get a good 5-6 doing regular work (coding mostly) with no issues or fear of completely running out of power. I have yet to have a windows laptop provide me the same performance without a bulky spare battery pack attached.
Support - The one time I called support for an issue with the time machine backups (which turned out to be a bad external drive no the mac btw.) I was connected to a support person in under 2 minutes and then escalated to a specialist in under 5, problem was sorted in quick order. In contrast to HP which is supposed to have the best support in the PC world a similar support call took over 3 hours. Time is money I need to be working not running though the same thing 10 times over and bounced around the globe.
Out of the box - While various PC makers add various software (mostly trials) with the mac you get enough to get started with for most needs, iphoto, Itunes, i movie, mail, ical, preview (document/pdf reader) Garage band, time machine (automatic backups) idvd, safari, photo booth, ichat, etc all come out of the box. This is enough for most home users. Most other software as mentioned earlier is easy to find and install. (in OSX you just drag the file to the apps folder to install) You also get a full linux and xwindows environment as well. As well as a relatively easy scripting language and automation tools.
Developer tools included - Yup Xcode is on the install DVD just install it, now you can write, compile, and debug software for the mac. Last time Microsoft shipped any development tools with windows was what Dos 6.22? Yes you can download the community versions of their development tools but it's just not the same. I honestly did not expect to see this for free on the Mac but was pleasantly surprised.
Finally the dang thing just works, it does what i need when I ask it to, my letterhead in office 2007 always fights me after saving the initial template, in Pages it just works. No hangs no spontaneous reboots, I can set up remote ssh/ftps mounts and work with files on my servers directly. Almost no learning curve for me, but if I did need help I can always schedule a one to one training session at my local Apple store for free with the apple care
Bottom line, like many things in life it's still a ya get what you pay for situation. You pay more for the mac (a lot more granted) but if you can afford it and it suits your personal and professional needs I would go for it. I don't think I'll buy anything else form here on.
PC stands for Personal Computer. I am typing this on my workstation, not my PC. There's no such thing as "Mac vs PC", it's a Cupertino marketing invention that everyone, including Microsoft, need to stop playing into. The actual comparison in OSX vs Windows but this seems to have too many syllables.
Valid -- there's a lot more choice of PCs than Macs, including PCs at a much lower price point than Macs. I would never buy one with Windows though.
That's about it! Windows doesn't print or file share without turning it on either, since that'd be pretty damned insecure. Familiarity? I really don't know that Windows 7 is more "familiar" than OSX, given how different it is from XP or 2000 (or 95, 98, 3.1). The mouse thing is silly, and the argument about compatibility is just as silly for a Mac as it is for Ubuntu -- both office suites have Office compatibility. What a bunch of FUD and BS.
Personally, I would not buy a Mac, I would buy a PC with Ubuntu, or a bare PC and put it on myself. But Microsoft's campaign is pretty stupid and pointless.
But you know what? I have pie. And a kitty. So I will just interrupt this thread to say: Mellow out guys! If there is trouble with mellowing out…I recommend pie. Also kitties.
Badgers icon, because it never gets enough love around here.
Every computing device has managed to infuriate me no end, Macbook died was told it would cost me 500 to fix the logic board (mother board) and there is a bloody update for iworks and itunes every bleeding month that adds functionality I dont want and with a useless 60g HD is becoming a pain (I havent updated in well over a year get a new notice everytime I log on).
When I had vista 64 retarded update stopped the pc booting and my web stopped working (never used it anyway) very time I start up the linux box I get so distracted changing/configuring/customising another feature that I don't actually do any work.
The saving grace is the windows PC is usually free or very cheap to fix and can do everything (win7 rocks), the mac is v. simple to use and is fairly reliable and the linux box is a good challenge.
Buy a external blu-ray player, tv-stick/receiver/tuner, USB memory stick reader (Who uses Sony M2's?), and use the modem supplied by the wireless provider, and Windows and you have BD playback, it's what people does on their pcs mostly (excluding BD) and a BD-player external that for connecting to the TV costs from $70 dollars now days.
And I thought Microsoft in MS Office 2011 would fix all the compatibility problems and work fine for collaborating over sharepoint.
PVR-software is included with the El gato TV-tuner. Also Roxio has some other features, so you can stream your eyetv recordings, or like supporting tivo2go. It's acceptable even if Microsoft's WMC is really good. You can also convert them for viewing on your iPhone/Pod if you got one of those. (Probably compatible with most other phones too).
Register
Microsoft has dusted off some hoary anti-Apple chestnuts in a new "Macs-suck-we-don't" web-based ad effort. It must be back-to-school computer-buying time — and Microsoft's marketeers aren't going to let the Mac's sales surge continue without a fight. Redmond floats a few reasons why a Windows PC is superior to a Mac on its new …
Page:
You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader
A few valid points but...
> You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader
Really?
The Mac mini has an SD card slot on the back
The MacBook Pro has an SD card slot on the side
The iMac has an SD card slot on the side
Microsoft should actually look up the specs of the computers they're comparing with!!
A memory stick reader
Wouldn't that just be a USB port?
That cheesythe clown comment earlier is posted by a clown.
Memory sticks
>> You can't get a Mac that ships with a ... Memory Stick reader
>Really?
Really!
A memory stick is not a generic memory card, it's a specific type of memory card that is different to an SD card. Most Pc's have multi card readers that read both SD and memory sticks. a few also read XD cards and compact flash.
They are being absolutely 100% truthful, however, in a way that is misleading if you don't know much about memory cards.
Memory Stick? Sony still makes those?
Average kid going back to school:
"What's a memory stick? Did they work in 8-Track players or something?"
Memory Stick is not SD Card
Perhaps *you* should look up some specs?
GJC
Memory Stick
Really? Does anything even use those anymore. Even my Sony DSLR doesn't support any form of Memory Stick (including HG, Pro, Pro Duo, Micro and anything else). If Sony don't support them anymore I think you can safely assume they're dead in the water.
Bragging that a PC will support obsolete technology seems a pretty weird way to advertise it.
Worst bit..
The worst (and indeed most telling) part is the thing about the mouse.
"If you're used to a PC..." tells you all you need to know.
The worst bit is: they are making the assumption that PC=Windows. However the mouse on my home PC works differently from the one at work, because my home PC doesn't run Windows. They are clearly trying to force people to believe there are only two desktop OS's in the world and if you buy a PC you only have one option. The funny thing is that they are obviously trying to catch 'em young to avoid another lost generation, but they're on a hiding to nothing there. My five year old son can operate Windows, KDE and OSX with equal ease, it took him no time to work out how to use the DVR as well. Kids these days are brought up with the concept of GUIs and have no problems adapting to new ones. So in a few years time differences in GUI will be insignificant to the majority of users.
The telling bit is: So they're not aiming this campaign at people who are used to Macs, they are aiming it at people who have PCs.
Well yes.
They're trying to persuade people not to try a Mac. People that do that tend to be lost MS customers...
"My five year old son can..."
"My five year old son can operate Windows, KDE and OSX with equal ease" - Scary, scary times.
My five year old son can play football, hide and seek, tag, with equal ease, but knows little on how to use a PC. He's only 5 for Christ sake, he doesn't need to use one yet!
I prefer that my kids were out getting fresh air, exercising and playing rather than have them in teaching them my hobby.
So what?
"My five year old son can play football, hide and seek, tag, with equal ease, but knows little on how to use a PC. He's only 5 for Christ sake, he doesn't need to use one yet!"
Funny that my five year old does all the things yours does as well as ride a bike, swim, fly a kite and bodyboard. And he can use a computer, DVD player, STB and he's getting pretty good on the allotment too - his parsnips are the biggest on the site. Not a bad wee cook either so long as there's an adult to deal with the hot stuff. Plus of course he can read and write and count. And yes he does *need* to use a computer - they are on the curriculum at school.
Kids learn easilly and quickly. Just because they're only five you should not limit their activities, indeed the opposite is true they pick up new skills much quicker at that age. A five year old will generally learn a new skill much quicker than a ten year old and so much quicker than an adult it's scary. And the great thing is they don't tend to lose those skills in a hurry. They should try something new at least once a week. His new thing this week is camping.
yes yes yes
but does a 5 year old really need to know how to use so many different operating systems?
My son can use the computer, ok it's only Windows XP and it's only very basic what he can do (go on the Cbeebies website for example), and he can use the TV and Sky.
"Kids learn easilly and quickly. Just because they're only five you should not limit their activities" - My point exactly. Rather than pushing my hobby onto my son, I'd rather him be out doing what he likes doing and finding his own interests.
FAIL
"PCs running Windows 7 look and work more like the computers you're familiar with"
Why do they make the apparent assumption that everybody is familiar with Windows and nobody is familiar with anything else.
We used to have a manager (thankfully long gone) who wanted Windows everything, the problem was his argument against anything else was always that it was "non-standard". As if Windows is some sort of internationally agreed standard and everything else is deviant. MS clearly think the same way.
Microsoft have admitted they have lost a generation, but they are still pushing forward as if they haven't. They need to get rid of all the marketing drones who think like that and get in a new generation who will sell Windows as if it were a new product. That's always the best way to sell anyway - trying to sell something on the basis of it's being old and familiar is doomed to failure.
Some people buy things just because they're familiar and will buy nothing else, marketing doesn't work on these people because it isn't needed to make them buy what they already buy and it won't be heeded if it's trying to make them change. You've all met the man who's on his umpteenth new Ford and has never owned anything else and never will and his dad was probably the same.
Other people make decisions (not always wise ones) based on publicity which isn't always the same as advertising, something gets a mention somewhere and they think "ooh, that looks good, I'll try that". Marketing really works on these people, but it's got to have impact saying "buy this because it's familiar" really won't work on them, "buy this because it's new and exciting" might work.
Then there are people who do research and make informed decisions. Marketing can work on this group, but it has to be reasoned. Saying "don't buy anything else because it sucks" is not going to work because nobody making an informed decision is going to be stupid enough to listen to anybody listing the cons of the opposition without coming up with and real pros for their own product.
What was clever about the "I'm a Mac" stuff initially was that nobody had done anything like it before. It did make valid some comparisons, but mainly it was fresh and amusing. It got a bit stale after a while mainly because it had nothing new to say, but also it lost that freshness. It should have been killed off sooner. MS however are stuck in a rut fighting back against an ad campaign that is long gone. MS also have had nothing new to say for some time. The really worrying thing is that they seem to have nothing new to say about their apparently world beating new product, Windows 7. Also worrying is the fact that some of their major selling points for their OS have got nothing to do with their OS. Has the colour of the case or the hardware options in some PCs got anything to do with Windows? Nope.
Wow
I look forward to the Mactaliation, should be almost as hilarious as this.
Hilariously inept marketing
Here are a few more for you Microsoft....
It is far easier to get warez software from your mates if you have a PC.
PCs generally have many more blue LEDs than Macs.
If you buy a Mac then people may think you are a homosexualist.
What?
'MAC's dont work as well at work or school'?
So there is some spooky anti mac force field installed in all workplaces and schools!!
So they must work great in the home, where there is no spooky force field?
let's use...
marketing to fight Apple, after all it hasn't been working for 5 years now?
Dear MS management, put down the pay cheque, leave the building, and ....
one more great thing about windows....
it works better with your Zune......
How about 'software performance sucks on a Mac'?
Oops that certainly included Microsoft Office for Mac.
Back to the drawing board..
Plus point
For some people, a home computer that looks/works different to the one at work is a plus point. In much the same way as a couch looks/works different to a desk - we don't all want homes that are facsimiles of our offices
Not only that...
...but it makes it less likely you'll have to take work home.
"Sorry I can't work on those documents at home. I've got a Mac."
It is either very clever or very dumb
Clever:
Most people are focusing on the just TWO OS, blinded to any alternatives: classic marketing.
When you buy batteries from a shop there are usually two brands: a cheaply priced one you have never heard of and a premium priced brand - given this choice, there are generally two sorts of customers: ones who buy the cheapest and ones who buy the branded one.
Microsoft cannot do cheapest, since Windows is a similar price to OS X (but cheaper hardware) and Linux is free.
Dumb:
It make people look at the competitor.
Part of the Microsoft - OEM deal is to advertise Windows.
I've not used Windows 7, but I'll assume it is just Vista with a service pack and name change. The network wizard in Vista seemed to be the same as the terrible one in XP - similar but not for a good reason. As a former XP user, some settings are very difficult to find in Vista.
Using OS X (in the Apple shop) there is a minute or so of culture shock and (as with Linux) things are set-up for you without going through a 'make you feel stupid' wizard (unfortunately Linux apes Windows in many ways).
Sent from my Linux netbook (that is too small to run Windows).
Windows is a similar price to OS X (but cheaper hardware) and Linux is free.
Huh?
Windows 7 Home (single): $199.99 [upgrade: $119.99]
Windows 7 Pro (single): $299.99 [upgrade: $199.99]
Windows 7 Ultimate (single): $319.99 [upgrade: $219.99]
OSx (single): $26.91 (Amazon) [5 licenses for family: $49]
It should be noted that you buy OSx, you get the full enchilada in one pack. No Home Premium. No Pro. No Ultimate. No Cappa-latte-skinny-model crap.
Now.. call me dumb; but even the cheapest commercial price is nearly 10x the price of OS X. How is this a similar price?
Just get a mac
you know you want one.
Agree with posters - as a Mac, Windows, Ubuntu user myself...
Sharing on a Mac - @Anonymous Coward, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 09:15 GMT
""you have to manually set up photo sharing, manually set up music and movie sharing, manually set up file sharing, and manually set up printer sharing"
Surely that's a good thing. Especially given how many users never bother to change their default settings on either their router or their computer."
I agree. The default settings possibly have the lowest security.
Convicted monopolist boasting about its monopoly - MacroRodent, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 09:21 GMT
""And if most of the Windows computers at the school used OpenOffice for office work, instead or MS Office, Mac users, Linux users, Solaris users, FreeBSD users etc. would not notice much difference, since it works pretty much the same on all those platforms."
In that part of the ad, Microsoft is pretty much admitting it has the office suite monopoly, and you had better go along with it, or else..."
I agree. Their argument fails on merit as it is merely their legacy - which the poster below elaborates on:
Astonishing Chutzpah - Anonymous Coward, Posted Tuesday 10th August 2010 07:06 GMT
"errata
"If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac."
"If most of the computers in your office or school run a different version of Windows, or a different version of their Office products, you may find it harder to get things done with a PC."
FTFY
"
My view?
Well, I own an apple mac book pro 17", run a desktop PC with Windows 7 and Ubuntu Linux and a Netbook with Windows XP, so:
"No blu-ray built-in to apple mac" claim? True, but I have an external blu-ray burner to attach. The barrier is cost for sure.
"No eSATA on high-end macs" claim? Nearly true, but latest mac book pro 17" (in fact that is why I was forced to spend more and buy this rather than lower spec models) still have ExpressCard/34 to add an eSATA card, Mac Pros also with expansion, but yes, a serious mistake on Apple's part to omit this capabaility from smaller Mac Book Pros and iMacs.
MS - doing it wrong
You want students to buy a PC? Reprise Apple's campaign.
Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac
PC: *silence*
Mac: Are you busy, PC?
PC: Shut up, I'm gaming.
Mac: Oh, which games have you got?
PC: All of them. Bitch.
FAIL
You would be right were it not for the fact that kids play games on consoles. Only sad old nerds play games on PCs.
A couple things missing....
Ok I recently took the plunge and purchased the 17" Macbook pro, so far it's been the best laptop I have ever owned and I have owed several over the years including some from Alienware and other high end laptops. (I'm an IT veteran of over 25 years) I'm mostly a web security, architect and software designer these days, not a gamer and so far I am extremely pleased with it for what I need.
Few points to consider here:
Overall build quality - The MBP17 is by far one of the most solid well engineered laptops I have ever used. every detail appears to be well though out and not just thrown in there because it fits that way the way most PC laptops seem to be in comparison. It's less than half the thickness of my wife's 6 month old HP laptop (without it's bulging battery pack with it it's roughly 1/4 the thickness) and even though mine is a 17' and her's is a 15" mine weighs less. It's solid aluminum body while not colorful is classy, and I think makes the plastic ones look cheap personally. Small touches like a closing cover over the express card slot to keep dust out and the clever button that shows you the current battery charge without booking up are very nice. The mag safe charger cable and brick are much nicer than any PC power connectors I have used, no shorting or sparking if you connect a live cable. (Haven't we all at least once done this?)
CPU - All of the Macbook Pro's support Hardware Virtulization, even the lower end 13" models, most of the PC laptops you will find at the big box stores do not (or at least didn't as of a month ago when I was looking around) Anyone running windows 7 who wants to ever run a MS Virtual PC (aka windows XP mode) on their laptop will be disappointed after shelling out the cash for Windows 7 pro or Ultamate to find the hardware on their new PC won't support it. I do a lot of development so VM's are a must. Enterprise customers need the XP mode for legacy software.
Flexibility - You can run a PC on a mac, not the other way around. And with the latest Parellels Software they PC apps just show up in their own apps folder. Start up and shutdown of Windows 7 is faster than on a similarly configured PC (PC actually has more RAM maybee that's part of it but who knows.) The PC based apps I still use run fin without issues.
Office Apps - I run Office 2007 and 2010 on the PC's, Open office on my linux boxes, I run Apple's iWork package on my mac, mostly because it was less than half the cost of MS Office. Yes office has more bells and whistles but I find the items on the iWork easier to use to create stunning layouts, I even find myself using Adobe in-design less and Pages more and more.
The touch pad - it's a multi-touch pad, not a touch pad and yes it takes a while to get the hang of but is very intuitive and powerful. I have never been a fan of touch pads, in fact I hate them with a passion but this one is easier and works better than any I have ever used, and I almost never use my mouse anymore just the pad.
Battery - While I'm not seeing 9 hours on battery while actually doing work (I did bump the cable out one night and it ran on battery for over 10 hours idle though) I constantly get a good 5-6 doing regular work (coding mostly) with no issues or fear of completely running out of power. I have yet to have a windows laptop provide me the same performance without a bulky spare battery pack attached.
Support - The one time I called support for an issue with the time machine backups (which turned out to be a bad external drive no the mac btw.) I was connected to a support person in under 2 minutes and then escalated to a specialist in under 5, problem was sorted in quick order. In contrast to HP which is supposed to have the best support in the PC world a similar support call took over 3 hours. Time is money I need to be working not running though the same thing 10 times over and bounced around the globe.
Out of the box - While various PC makers add various software (mostly trials) with the mac you get enough to get started with for most needs, iphoto, Itunes, i movie, mail, ical, preview (document/pdf reader) Garage band, time machine (automatic backups) idvd, safari, photo booth, ichat, etc all come out of the box. This is enough for most home users. Most other software as mentioned earlier is easy to find and install. (in OSX you just drag the file to the apps folder to install) You also get a full linux and xwindows environment as well. As well as a relatively easy scripting language and automation tools.
Developer tools included - Yup Xcode is on the install DVD just install it, now you can write, compile, and debug software for the mac. Last time Microsoft shipped any development tools with windows was what Dos 6.22? Yes you can download the community versions of their development tools but it's just not the same. I honestly did not expect to see this for free on the Mac but was pleasantly surprised.
Finally the dang thing just works, it does what i need when I ask it to, my letterhead in office 2007 always fights me after saving the initial template, in Pages it just works. No hangs no spontaneous reboots, I can set up remote ssh/ftps mounts and work with files on my servers directly. Almost no learning curve for me, but if I did need help I can always schedule a one to one training session at my local Apple store for free with the apple care
Bottom line, like many things in life it's still a ya get what you pay for situation. You pay more for the mac (a lot more granted) but if you can afford it and it suits your personal and professional needs I would go for it. I don't think I'll buy anything else form here on.
"....your spreadsheets might not calculate correctly. "
WTF? Really?
FFS, Macs ARE PCs
PC stands for Personal Computer. I am typing this on my workstation, not my PC. There's no such thing as "Mac vs PC", it's a Cupertino marketing invention that everyone, including Microsoft, need to stop playing into. The actual comparison in OSX vs Windows but this seems to have too many syllables.
a few valid points and a bunch of BS
Valid -- there's a lot more choice of PCs than Macs, including PCs at a much lower price point than Macs. I would never buy one with Windows though.
That's about it! Windows doesn't print or file share without turning it on either, since that'd be pretty damned insecure. Familiarity? I really don't know that Windows 7 is more "familiar" than OSX, given how different it is from XP or 2000 (or 95, 98, 3.1). The mouse thing is silly, and the argument about compatibility is just as silly for a Mac as it is for Ubuntu -- both office suites have Office compatibility. What a bunch of FUD and BS.
Personally, I would not buy a Mac, I would buy a PC with Ubuntu, or a bare PC and put it on myself. But Microsoft's campaign is pretty stupid and pointless.
I should probably rant about something here.
But you know what? I have pie. And a kitty. So I will just interrupt this thread to say: Mellow out guys! If there is trouble with mellowing out…I recommend pie. Also kitties.
Badgers icon, because it never gets enough love around here.
a load of comments...
...little commonsense
lol
Every computing device has managed to infuriate me no end, Macbook died was told it would cost me 500 to fix the logic board (mother board) and there is a bloody update for iworks and itunes every bleeding month that adds functionality I dont want and with a useless 60g HD is becoming a pain (I havent updated in well over a year get a new notice everytime I log on).
When I had vista 64 retarded update stopped the pc booting and my web stopped working (never used it anyway) very time I start up the linux box I get so distracted changing/configuring/customising another feature that I don't actually do any work.
The saving grace is the windows PC is usually free or very cheap to fix and can do everything (win7 rocks), the mac is v. simple to use and is fairly reliable and the linux box is a good challenge.
Pen and Paper trumps all
The problem was what?
Buy a external blu-ray player, tv-stick/receiver/tuner, USB memory stick reader (Who uses Sony M2's?), and use the modem supplied by the wireless provider, and Windows and you have BD playback, it's what people does on their pcs mostly (excluding BD) and a BD-player external that for connecting to the TV costs from $70 dollars now days.
And I thought Microsoft in MS Office 2011 would fix all the compatibility problems and work fine for collaborating over sharepoint.
PVR-software is included with the El gato TV-tuner. Also Roxio has some other features, so you can stream your eyetv recordings, or like supporting tivo2go. It's acceptable even if Microsoft's WMC is really good. You can also convert them for viewing on your iPhone/Pod if you got one of those. (Probably compatible with most other phones too).
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