The possibility of class-action lawsuit arising from the ban of roughly 1m gamers from Xbox Live doesn’t worry Microsoft, because the firm believes it is in the right.
With a view to launching a class action lawsuit against the software giant, US law firm Abington IP last week published a webpage calling for anyone remotely …
XBox Live ToS regarding modded consoles are there because console modding allows cheating on XBox Live. Those with modded consoles are able to cheat.
You should put in the article that xBox consoles continue to work without the XBox Live service, as do all XBox services which don't require XBox live.
"Abington IP has yet to confirm if the Xbox Live lawsuit will go ahead, almost certainly because it's waiting for a sufficient number of aggrieved punters to come forward and be named..."
Yeah, right. Hand MS & the IP lawyers a list of names and addresses of people with modified XBoxes who are running copied/illegal software. Why else would you modify an XBox?
Anonymous although I do not own any games consoles.
it's not so much the Live ban that is bothering alot of people..
It's the corrupting of profiles when moving it from the banned on, the disabling of installing to the hdd too, and the resetting of valid bought licenses on the machine of arcade games.
Live is a service, they have a right to refuse service - but those other features are not a service, they are part of the consoles core functionality... breaking some core functionality of a console without permission should be seen as vandelism... also, microsoft never warned people that the console would be limited, other than with a ban from xbox live and voiding of warranty.
That's just my opinion... but microsoft should be worried.
It's more than time that Redmond and others were challenged about their EULAs and some of the weird and overprotective clauses they have in them. Not sure if this one will win but it needs to be done, especially as the "chipping" of a machine does not necessarily mean that the user has been playing pirated software (it seems unlikely that you would chip a machine for any other reason but there remains an element of doubt that calls the whole assumption into question).
If the XBox Live system is such a closed system, it's a wonder that anyone would want to use it. Wonder if anyone else might consider opening a rival system to cater for these Microsoft "outcasts"?
These people stole from Microsoft and the games industry.
Microsoft told people they would be banned from Live, no one listened to them and the boot came down. Kudos to MS for actually doing something about the millions, (we can say that now we knkow the rough figures - plus the numbers smart enough not to put their chipped consoles on Live), of people who persistantly think they're above the law.
I have no sympathy for this sacrafite tossers who think that stealing something which takes a large group of people 5 years and millions of pounds to make.
TV episodes I can understand - there's more than enough product placement in your avereage American TV show - plus most people now have DVR's - I can't remember the last time I watched live TV, (BBC News excluded), nor can I remember the last time I saw an advert.
But video games are different, people work bloody hard creating them, (and other software products), not all software developers are paid lot's of money - we've seen games developers go under the last couple of years and more will continue to unless e stop this.
"TV episodes I can understand - there's more than enough product placement in your avereage American TV show - plus most people now have DVR's - I can't remember the last time I watched live TV, (BBC News excluded), nor can I remember the last time I saw an advert."
Oh I see, so because you're stealing from the networks who paid for that tv programme, with money they mainly get from advertising in ad breaks, it's alright - because you benefit... well then, clearly the rest of your rant wasn't all bullshit.
I can only assume you've never had an xbox die on you, or had it carve a groove into your game. Or have kids/siblings that treat your games with contempt... or even (shock horror) two xbox's in the same house, but can't be arsed carrying your games case up and downstairs everytime you want to play on it...
@ Original Ash.... actually, the "kids" tend to cheat these days by running networking hacks on you, not editing game content. That's still a PC niche I think... As far as I know, the 360 mod is just reflashing the dvd drive to boot backups, not run homebrew code.
Best moddable console ever was the original xbox - you modded that for homebrew, things like xbmc, installing new dashboards with awesome features like installing many games to the hdd, loading your entire game library without switching discs is very VERY nice, emulators, ftp file server, just tons of possibliities. None of that can be done on the 360... at some point people were getting their live accounts suspended for sending game-saves to each other for achievements, hardly cheating other than the hollow victory of having a stupidly high gamerscore?? lol... but that was their live accounts, didn't require anything more than a hdd lead (which microsoft supplies on request), and didn't mod the actual console in any way.... console banning from live is different - your account is still active, and as of this latest banwave and firmware update, it doesn't just affect your live service, and that's why this class action thingy is being put up now, for better or worse.
If it was about cheating on live - they could just limit your gold membership to silver when running from a banned console... no online play, they could also increase security when you are connected in matches online to stop idiots from kicking you out of matches using networking hacks, and patch game glitches quicker so people don't sit below floor level and shoot up through it and you have no way of stopping it... but they keep getting bigger and bigger class upgrades.... but, alas, they dont! :)
What happens if you buy a used xbox, that has had the modification removed.
Is it still banned, I appreciate the T&Cs state that no modified consoles on xbox live, but the console would be being used without modification and yet still banned?
I would feel unfairly treated if I was in the position.
I have an xbox 360 it is modified, looked at xbox live but refuse to pay to connect to other gamers would rather use my p.c to play online. I just use the xbox to play off line, after having brought two xboxs, then after they red light i modifed them, I dont see why I should have to pay Micrsoft again once I brought there hardware for there on line service shouldbe for free, for playing against other gamers, run adds for revenue. I now recommend to others looking at buying a console dont bother wioth microsoft get a WII or a PS3. the reason microsoft have so many sales is most people have to go and buy another console after the first one dies.
And I only use Windows to play games, my p.c for for daily use is running LInux Suse 11.1
At the end of the day (and one that is cold and harsh here)
.. modders broke the T&Cs. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with them: they are there to decide over. If you agree with the T&Cs and then mod, it's your loss.
Anyone that has modded their console, does so on their own backs. If there are any issues with being banned because you took the decision to mod your console, then it's all down to you.
Harsh, but it's all down to you for modding your console. As the old saying goes; "You make your bed, you lie in it".
It's fair enough they ban you from the on-line service as it is a service that can be taken away at any time. But they are also removing core functionality such as the ability to install games to the hard drive. Don't you think that is a bit off, there are some people who do like to play "backups" as the system is known for eating discs (which MS don't replace). So I think it's fair to mod the system rather than paying for games twice.
Not that I have an xbox360, can't be bothered to send it back when it goes wrong and purchase games twice and pay to pay games on-line. Total rip off.
Nice posts... and I completely agree with what you're saying. Microsoft should only be preventing those customers who have modded their consoles from using XBox Live, not bricking the machine. Otherwise, they should have been much more upfront from the beginning that if they detect a modded console they will cause it to be unuseable.
@AC At the end of the day (and one that is cold and harsh here) ,
If the T&Cs that these people have broken don't talk about what the ramifications are then surely you cna understand why they're pissed off? The T&Cs should have stated that not only will you be banned from XBox Live, but your console will become a very big and incredibly ugly looking paperweight.
FWIW, I've not modded my XBox 360 so this wave of accounts being banned doesn't concern me, however, as a consumer I'm regularly being shafted by Microsoft.
I'll have to use a Clinton-ish phrase to rub it in:
"It's the CORRUPTED SAVEGAMES, stupid!"
MS didn't just stop at banning "hacked" consoles, it went even further and shat over legally-bought licenses, corrupted all savegames *and* crippled basic XBox functionality. It is basically similar to WGA corrupting all your files because you're using a "pirated" Windows.
Thanks to this, even those who *did* mod their consoles for playing pirated games have a legal standing; MS purposely vandalized their personal data. I wish 'em modders luck!
Also, I'd bet this goes down as bad PR for MS, while the PS3 stands well in this matter...
"If the XBox Live system is such a closed system, it's a wonder that anyone would want to use it. Wonder if anyone else might consider opening a rival system to cater for these Microsoft "outcasts"?"
Consoles are closed systems. That's sort of the point. Average Joe Console Gamer (not his real name) doesn't give a damn about whether his console is "open" or "closed", they just want to play their games.
and to another point that someone else made:
"I dont see why I should have to pay Micrsoft again once I brought there hardware for there on line service shouldbe for free"
I agree. The nerve of my cable company to continue to charge me for Internet access after I've bought the modem from them...
Register
The possibility of class-action lawsuit arising from the ban of roughly 1m gamers from Xbox Live doesn’t worry Microsoft, because the firm believes it is in the right. With a view to launching a class action lawsuit against the software giant, US law firm Abington IP last week published a webpage calling for anyone remotely …
Expect to lose the case
XBox Live ToS regarding modded consoles are there because console modding allows cheating on XBox Live. Those with modded consoles are able to cheat.
You should put in the article that xBox consoles continue to work without the XBox Live service, as do all XBox services which don't require XBox live.
Just how stupid do they think people are?
"Abington IP has yet to confirm if the Xbox Live lawsuit will go ahead, almost certainly because it's waiting for a sufficient number of aggrieved punters to come forward and be named..."
Yeah, right. Hand MS & the IP lawyers a list of names and addresses of people with modified XBoxes who are running copied/illegal software. Why else would you modify an XBox?
Anonymous although I do not own any games consoles.
it's not so much the Live ban that is bothering alot of people..
It's the corrupting of profiles when moving it from the banned on, the disabling of installing to the hdd too, and the resetting of valid bought licenses on the machine of arcade games.
Live is a service, they have a right to refuse service - but those other features are not a service, they are part of the consoles core functionality... breaking some core functionality of a console without permission should be seen as vandelism... also, microsoft never warned people that the console would be limited, other than with a ban from xbox live and voiding of warranty.
That's just my opinion... but microsoft should be worried.
Hmpf
It's more than time that Redmond and others were challenged about their EULAs and some of the weird and overprotective clauses they have in them. Not sure if this one will win but it needs to be done, especially as the "chipping" of a machine does not necessarily mean that the user has been playing pirated software (it seems unlikely that you would chip a machine for any other reason but there remains an element of doubt that calls the whole assumption into question).
If the XBox Live system is such a closed system, it's a wonder that anyone would want to use it. Wonder if anyone else might consider opening a rival system to cater for these Microsoft "outcasts"?
Screw your Customers..
That'll Definatly keep em coming back for more...NOT!
Whats that you say? a Free PS3 exchange for fucked Xboxes?? who'd a though to of that?
Tough
These people stole from Microsoft and the games industry.
Microsoft told people they would be banned from Live, no one listened to them and the boot came down. Kudos to MS for actually doing something about the millions, (we can say that now we knkow the rough figures - plus the numbers smart enough not to put their chipped consoles on Live), of people who persistantly think they're above the law.
I have no sympathy for this sacrafite tossers who think that stealing something which takes a large group of people 5 years and millions of pounds to make.
TV episodes I can understand - there's more than enough product placement in your avereage American TV show - plus most people now have DVR's - I can't remember the last time I watched live TV, (BBC News excluded), nor can I remember the last time I saw an advert.
But video games are different, people work bloody hard creating them, (and other software products), not all software developers are paid lot's of money - we've seen games developers go under the last couple of years and more will continue to unless e stop this.
RE: Tough
"TV episodes I can understand - there's more than enough product placement in your avereage American TV show - plus most people now have DVR's - I can't remember the last time I watched live TV, (BBC News excluded), nor can I remember the last time I saw an advert."
Oh I see, so because you're stealing from the networks who paid for that tv programme, with money they mainly get from advertising in ad breaks, it's alright - because you benefit... well then, clearly the rest of your rant wasn't all bullshit.
I can only assume you've never had an xbox die on you, or had it carve a groove into your game. Or have kids/siblings that treat your games with contempt... or even (shock horror) two xbox's in the same house, but can't be arsed carrying your games case up and downstairs everytime you want to play on it...
@ Original Ash.... actually, the "kids" tend to cheat these days by running networking hacks on you, not editing game content. That's still a PC niche I think... As far as I know, the 360 mod is just reflashing the dvd drive to boot backups, not run homebrew code.
Best moddable console ever was the original xbox - you modded that for homebrew, things like xbmc, installing new dashboards with awesome features like installing many games to the hdd, loading your entire game library without switching discs is very VERY nice, emulators, ftp file server, just tons of possibliities. None of that can be done on the 360... at some point people were getting their live accounts suspended for sending game-saves to each other for achievements, hardly cheating other than the hollow victory of having a stupidly high gamerscore?? lol... but that was their live accounts, didn't require anything more than a hdd lead (which microsoft supplies on request), and didn't mod the actual console in any way.... console banning from live is different - your account is still active, and as of this latest banwave and firmware update, it doesn't just affect your live service, and that's why this class action thingy is being put up now, for better or worse.
If it was about cheating on live - they could just limit your gold membership to silver when running from a banned console... no online play, they could also increase security when you are connected in matches online to stop idiots from kicking you out of matches using networking hacks, and patch game glitches quicker so people don't sit below floor level and shoot up through it and you have no way of stopping it... but they keep getting bigger and bigger class upgrades.... but, alas, they dont! :)
What if you didn't modify it?
What happens if you buy a used xbox, that has had the modification removed.
Is it still banned, I appreciate the T&Cs state that no modified consoles on xbox live, but the console would be being used without modification and yet still banned?
I would feel unfairly treated if I was in the position.
xbox live
I have an xbox 360 it is modified, looked at xbox live but refuse to pay to connect to other gamers would rather use my p.c to play online. I just use the xbox to play off line, after having brought two xboxs, then after they red light i modifed them, I dont see why I should have to pay Micrsoft again once I brought there hardware for there on line service shouldbe for free, for playing against other gamers, run adds for revenue. I now recommend to others looking at buying a console dont bother wioth microsoft get a WII or a PS3. the reason microsoft have so many sales is most people have to go and buy another console after the first one dies.
And I only use Windows to play games, my p.c for for daily use is running LInux Suse 11.1
great system.
At the end of the day (and one that is cold and harsh here)
.. modders broke the T&Cs. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with them: they are there to decide over. If you agree with the T&Cs and then mod, it's your loss.
Anyone that has modded their console, does so on their own backs. If there are any issues with being banned because you took the decision to mod your console, then it's all down to you.
Harsh, but it's all down to you for modding your console. As the old saying goes; "You make your bed, you lie in it".
Microsoft might be in trouble...
It's fair enough they ban you from the on-line service as it is a service that can be taken away at any time. But they are also removing core functionality such as the ability to install games to the hard drive. Don't you think that is a bit off, there are some people who do like to play "backups" as the system is known for eating discs (which MS don't replace). So I think it's fair to mod the system rather than paying for games twice.
Not that I have an xbox360, can't be bothered to send it back when it goes wrong and purchase games twice and pay to pay games on-line. Total rip off.
Counter suits
Let's see a counter suit.
Microsoft should accept a decision to allow the modded xbox's for one year if the user of the software can prove they purchased it.
But only the purchased game can be used.
All other games should not be used and Microsoft should then ban that xbox again.
Should we see those named in the Class Action Lawsuit be investigated to see if they are truly using purchased games.
That would certainly have everyone back out of the suit who is going after Microsoft because the boxes are modded to avoid paying for a game.
Shame on the modders!
Title goes here...
@ Law,
Nice posts... and I completely agree with what you're saying. Microsoft should only be preventing those customers who have modded their consoles from using XBox Live, not bricking the machine. Otherwise, they should have been much more upfront from the beginning that if they detect a modded console they will cause it to be unuseable.
@AC At the end of the day (and one that is cold and harsh here) ,
If the T&Cs that these people have broken don't talk about what the ramifications are then surely you cna understand why they're pissed off? The T&Cs should have stated that not only will you be banned from XBox Live, but your console will become a very big and incredibly ugly looking paperweight.
FWIW, I've not modded my XBox 360 so this wave of accounts being banned doesn't concern me, however, as a consumer I'm regularly being shafted by Microsoft.
It isn't the Live Banning...
I'll have to use a Clinton-ish phrase to rub it in:
"It's the CORRUPTED SAVEGAMES, stupid!"
MS didn't just stop at banning "hacked" consoles, it went even further and shat over legally-bought licenses, corrupted all savegames *and* crippled basic XBox functionality. It is basically similar to WGA corrupting all your files because you're using a "pirated" Windows.
Thanks to this, even those who *did* mod their consoles for playing pirated games have a legal standing; MS purposely vandalized their personal data. I wish 'em modders luck!
Also, I'd bet this goes down as bad PR for MS, while the PS3 stands well in this matter...
Consoles are closed systems
"If the XBox Live system is such a closed system, it's a wonder that anyone would want to use it. Wonder if anyone else might consider opening a rival system to cater for these Microsoft "outcasts"?"
Consoles are closed systems. That's sort of the point. Average Joe Console Gamer (not his real name) doesn't give a damn about whether his console is "open" or "closed", they just want to play their games.
and to another point that someone else made:
"I dont see why I should have to pay Micrsoft again once I brought there hardware for there on line service shouldbe for free"
I agree. The nerve of my cable company to continue to charge me for Internet access after I've bought the modem from them...