Apple's 17in MacBook Pro comes installed with a humungous 12,820mAh battery, a disassembly of the newly shipping system reveals.
Mind you, since the thing weighs a hefty 6.6lbs/3kg, how often users will be relying on battery power remains to be seen. We suspect this boy is going to spend most of its life on desktops, plugged …
That you're able to upgrade something like the memory without worry of recourse, but why not the one thing that you're most likely to replace in a portable computer - the battery?
Rather typical of Apple, but on the positive side it means I can continue selling PC DDR2/3 memory at grossly inflated prices just by slapping "Apple Compatible", quite correctly, in the listing.
Getting better, but Apple need to start considering the needs of their users rather than just using them to line their pockets. Unfortunately most of their users are more than happy to blindly do so.
Please, there is no such thing as "1.25lb." A pound is subdivided into sixteen ounces, so the correct way to write "a pound and a quarter" would be "1lb 4oz."
If you want to use decimal notation, that's what SI units were made for. Take your pick between 600g. and 0.6kg., depending whether you want to make it look light or heavy, but don't try to be more accurate than the original measurement (it could be plus or minus as much as half an ounce, which is 14 grammes).
Just do a search of the word "lipo" on Youtube to see why Apple don't want end-users removing them. I have had experience of these in other applications, and they can be quite exciting.
In days of old, before decimalisation then yes it would be correct to write 1lb 4oz.
But there is nothing wrong with writing 1.25lb. In fact, it is arguably better. Why?
Try adding weights represented in pounds and ounzes on a modern day decimal calculator - calculators which have been around since the 1970's and you will soon discover it is not easy to add weights together unless you convert them to decimal form first.
So why bother insisting people write down the weight in pounds and ounzes when they're going to have to convert into decimal form before they can do any calculations with the weights?
If you're referring to food ingredients and you have weighing scales in the kitchen which are graduated in pounds and ounzes then quoting weights in pounds and ounzes is quite a reasonable thing to do. But here, we' re talking computers.
We exist today in a decimal world, therefore it is quite reasonable and better to represent weights and other non-SI units in a decimal way.
Hmm, I've owned several laptops as well as had several provided by my employer. Never purchased a battery for any of them nor removed the battery they came with nor had my employer replace a battery.
Non removable is fine with me.
I've gone through several replacement external power supplies on my current Dell laptop though.
Those batteries are the shiz! Blasting out well over 150 Wh/kg beats the stink out of Teslas EV setup at a puny 118 Wh/kg. Heck, you could outfit a small school with Apple's new all in one 17" desktop computer and use the batteries to build one bitchin' leccy iRide!
Get out more, Stiles. There's nothing wrong with that kind of usage. 0.25lbs == 1/4 lb == 4oz, they're all exactly the same and you can say whichever you please.
>"Take your pick between 600g. and 0.6kg., depending whether you want to make it look light or heavy, but don't try to be more accurate than the original measurement (it could be plus or minus as much as half an ounce, which is 14 grammes)."
And how do *you* know the original measurement wasn't in grammes, accurate to plus or minus a few, and then converted to pounds? And what kind of scales do you use that are only accurate to plus or minus half an ounce on as little as a pound-and-a-bit? No wonder your deals are always light, ya skank!
Please let us keep the ounce! Just redefine 1oz = exactly 25g and 1lb =20 oz. That makes an ounce slightly lighter, an a pound slightly heavier but keeps Ye Olde English tradition alive and gives us more useful measurements for cooking (1g useless for anything but salt, 1kg useless for anything but potatoes). I'm sure the Germans have a Pfund which is exactly 500g.
While the new MacBooks are very nice kit indeed I don't see Apple sticking with the whole "non user serviceable" battery idea. I don't think they will do a turn around right away, however by the time next years models are rolling out I think we'll see a change of plans. Non swappable/replaceable battery in a laptop is just a bad idea waiting to bite them in the arse.
P.S. to the wintard ODFO, some of us actually have reasoning abilities beyond the ten year old level and can actually like Apple and their products while still being able to call them on their crap.
I don't see the problem, El Reg readers work in IT yet would take notice of a label that says DO NOT REMOVE on a laptop battery!? It's obvious this is for due diligence and you will be able to pick up a battery on ebay and replay it should the need exist in years to come.
I well remember my circa early 1980s Casio could handle fractions with aplomb. Well, quite well at any rate. Ergo, your pointless post about a pointless post is also, erm, pointless.
What's the issue here? By the time you need to replace the battery, the unit will long be out of warranty anyway. Presumably the issue is that Apple have had to cut back on shielding and possibly even had to use a more fragile connector in order to get the largest battery possible.
The battery life is impressive, although I'm personally not that keen on laptops that huge.
The important part you neglect to mention is this battery pack is only two cells - 7.4V, for a total of 95Wh, and therefore in the same class as the average 9 cell battery for any laptop that offers one.
But what the hell right? 12,800mAh is a nice big number!
I've owned perhaps a dozen laptops, and I've never replaced the battery on any of them. I've taken the battery out of a couple of them, but that was just to see that it was possible.
About the 17" laptop itself: I own an older model 17" MBP that I essentially got "for free" (list price at the time was around £2000, but I got it in lieu of expenses from a company I worked at). It is huge and weighs a lot, and the battery life on it is about 1 hour, so you don't really use it unless you are within range of a power outlet. The screen is great but the laptop runs pretty hot and it's so heavy that you can't comfortably have it on your knee. I classify it as more of a "luggable desktop" rather than a laptop.
You've been very lucky with your laptops then - although the fact you've had about 12 suggests you replace then fairly often - possibly before they require a new battery. I manage hundreds of laptops at work which we often buy in batches of say 20.
Recently over half of a single batch's batteries required replacing within the first 1.5 years (and pretty much all of them within 2) - they were'nt not necessarily holding the required charge - but they actually reported that they needed replacing and you couldn't use the laptops without a stupid message appearing on screen telling you they need replacing. I could have just left them and hoped it was a faulty warning - but I couldn't take the risk Fortunately these were removable and replaceable by myself otherwise it would have been a real headache getting them all sorted (and probably cost massively over the odds too).
A laptop battery is normally only under warranty for a year, and an extended battery warranty costs a lot - there's probably a reason for that!!
Going off topic here, but what the heck is this program about Paris and a British Best Friend, I've seen about 20 seconds of the program and she keeps referring to "BBF", who the hell commissioned this rubbish on British Television? I think she needs to grow up a bit.
I have visions of her being asked "What's the capital of the United States of America?" and her replying "Toronto", kinda like Jade Goody and the question about Wales.
I associate Paris with cucumbers...but the least said about that the better.
@'it'll be long out of warranty by the time the battery dies'
#
Not if you're doing things properly, it won't. Intensively used laptops can kill the battery within a couple of years - sometimes even less (this would be why some manufacturers have a 3 year laptop warranty but only a 1 year battery warranty...).
In any case, if you've spent a decent amount of money on either a new or reconditioned with warranty laptop, you would be an utter lunatic not to keep extending the warranty. Apple has Applecare, other manufacturers let you add on n years at a time to the warranty. Laptops for all their shinyness are slow, unreliable and expensive to fix as compared to a desktop.
Yes this battery may be 12.8AH, but as AC has already said, it is only 7.4V. This is the equivalent energy capacity of a 6.4AH 14.8V battery, the typical capacity of those being about 4.5AH.
The 12.8AH battery has good capacity, but it's by no means as huge as the article makes it seem.
If the system does not normally need more than 7.2 volts, then why is more voltage needed?
I have not seen a whole lot of CPU's and peripherals require 12 volts. Laptop hard drives will often run with only 5v now.
This being said, a properly designed system that does not require more volts does not need a battery that supplies more voltage - if the vendor built in a 12 volt battery, it is a waste, since 3.8 volts would just be used to generate heat through step-down circuitry!
Some time in the future, I would hope to see batteries using 3.6 volts with 24 Amps... to get some real life expectancy and further reduce heat production!
Please note, neither of us stated or hinted that more voltage is needed. What we were saying is that the current capacity alone doesn't reflect the energy carrying capacity of the battery.
PS: I take it you don't know what a switching supply is? There is no wasted voltage (or power). For example: a switching supply can take 14V, output 2.8V at 10 amps, while only draw 2 amps (imagine a DC transformer). That's why batteries of higher voltages can be used.
Register
17in MacBook boasts bloody big battery
Apple's 17in MacBook Pro comes installed with a humungous 12,820mAh battery, a disassembly of the newly shipping system reveals. Mind you, since the thing weighs a hefty 6.6lbs/3kg, how often users will be relying on battery power remains to be seen. We suspect this boy is going to spend most of its life on desktops, plugged …
This topic is closed for new posts.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 17:27 GMT
Peter Kay
Warning! #
Do not remove this sticker without an 150 quid servicing and repair charge, rather than 60 quid from ebay or third party vendor! Obey the Steve.
I certainly can't see why they couldn't put a couple of hatches on the underside.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 17:27 GMT
Joel Mansford
wtf - look but don't touch!? #
How Apple can think it's acceptable to have non-removable CONSUMABLE parts is beyond me.
What's worse is that people buy them! In my mind, batteries and harddrives have a sufficiently short MTBF to warrant user-replacement in all machines.
Apple, grow-up - these are computers not disposable ipods.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 17:27 GMT
Nick Mallard
Sense? #
That you're able to upgrade something like the memory without worry of recourse, but why not the one thing that you're most likely to replace in a portable computer - the battery?
Rather typical of Apple, but on the positive side it means I can continue selling PC DDR2/3 memory at grossly inflated prices just by slapping "Apple Compatible", quite correctly, in the listing.
Getting better, but Apple need to start considering the needs of their users rather than just using them to line their pockets. Unfortunately most of their users are more than happy to blindly do so.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 17:27 GMT
A J Stiles
Units #
Please, there is no such thing as "1.25lb." A pound is subdivided into sixteen ounces, so the correct way to write "a pound and a quarter" would be "1lb 4oz."
If you want to use decimal notation, that's what SI units were made for. Take your pick between 600g. and 0.6kg., depending whether you want to make it look light or heavy, but don't try to be more accurate than the original measurement (it could be plus or minus as much as half an ounce, which is 14 grammes).
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Tony Smith, Editor, Reg Hardware
@A J Stiles #
Have you *really* got nothing better to do of a Friday afternoon?
[Editor shakes head, wanders out of office pub-ward...]
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Richard Cartledge
Lithium Explosion #
Just do a search of the word "lipo" on Youtube to see why Apple don't want end-users removing them. I have had experience of these in other applications, and they can be quite exciting.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Anonymous Coward
@A J Stiles #
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1.25lb+in+g
If google can do it, then it must be possible!
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Anonymous Coward
Pounds and Ounces #
In days of old, before decimalisation then yes it would be correct to write 1lb 4oz.
But there is nothing wrong with writing 1.25lb. In fact, it is arguably better. Why?
Try adding weights represented in pounds and ounzes on a modern day decimal calculator - calculators which have been around since the 1970's and you will soon discover it is not easy to add weights together unless you convert them to decimal form first.
So why bother insisting people write down the weight in pounds and ounzes when they're going to have to convert into decimal form before they can do any calculations with the weights?
If you're referring to food ingredients and you have weighing scales in the kitchen which are graduated in pounds and ounzes then quoting weights in pounds and ounzes is quite a reasonable thing to do. But here, we' re talking computers.
We exist today in a decimal world, therefore it is quite reasonable and better to represent weights and other non-SI units in a decimal way.
So I diagree with your pedantic post.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Anonymous Coward
no problem with a non-removable battery #
Hmm, I've owned several laptops as well as had several provided by my employer. Never purchased a battery for any of them nor removed the battery they came with nor had my employer replace a battery.
Non removable is fine with me.
I've gone through several replacement external power supplies on my current Dell laptop though.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Anonymous Coward
Apple want your soul - coming soon!!! #
More crap Apple lock in. You'll never get away children, not once the hooks are in soul (well pocket).
Fuck off Steve!!
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Eddy Ito
Call Tesla #
Those batteries are the shiz! Blasting out well over 150 Wh/kg beats the stink out of Teslas EV setup at a puny 118 Wh/kg. Heck, you could outfit a small school with Apple's new all in one 17" desktop computer and use the batteries to build one bitchin' leccy iRide!
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 18:52 GMT
Anonymous Coward
But what is the SI unit of pedantry? #
>"Please, there is no such thing as "1.25lb.""
Get out more, Stiles. There's nothing wrong with that kind of usage. 0.25lbs == 1/4 lb == 4oz, they're all exactly the same and you can say whichever you please.
>"Take your pick between 600g. and 0.6kg., depending whether you want to make it look light or heavy, but don't try to be more accurate than the original measurement (it could be plus or minus as much as half an ounce, which is 14 grammes)."
And how do *you* know the original measurement wasn't in grammes, accurate to plus or minus a few, and then converted to pounds? And what kind of scales do you use that are only accurate to plus or minus half an ounce on as little as a pound-and-a-bit? No wonder your deals are always light, ya skank!
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
John H Woods
off topic: pounds and ounces #
Please let us keep the ounce! Just redefine 1oz = exactly 25g and 1lb =20 oz. That makes an ounce slightly lighter, an a pound slightly heavier but keeps Ye Olde English tradition alive and gives us more useful measurements for cooking (1g useless for anything but salt, 1kg useless for anything but potatoes). I'm sure the Germans have a Pfund which is exactly 500g.
Campaign anyone?
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Anonymous Coward
Don't think it'll last #
While the new MacBooks are very nice kit indeed I don't see Apple sticking with the whole "non user serviceable" battery idea. I don't think they will do a turn around right away, however by the time next years models are rolling out I think we'll see a change of plans. Non swappable/replaceable battery in a laptop is just a bad idea waiting to bite them in the arse.
P.S. to the wintard ODFO, some of us actually have reasoning abilities beyond the ten year old level and can actually like Apple and their products while still being able to call them on their crap.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Anonymous Coward
What's the prob? #
I don't see the problem, El Reg readers work in IT yet would take notice of a label that says DO NOT REMOVE on a laptop battery!? It's obvious this is for due diligence and you will be able to pick up a battery on ebay and replay it should the need exist in years to come.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
hj
using dots in non-metric units #
is for people who fail to see that their unit system is sooo 1900's....
Paris, cause she will probably will never get a grip on the metric system either.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Anonymous Coward
Calculators? #
I well remember my circa early 1980s Casio could handle fractions with aplomb. Well, quite well at any rate. Ergo, your pointless post about a pointless post is also, erm, pointless.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Mr C Hill
What's the issue? #
What's the issue here? By the time you need to replace the battery, the unit will long be out of warranty anyway. Presumably the issue is that Apple have had to cut back on shielding and possibly even had to use a more fragile connector in order to get the largest battery possible.
The battery life is impressive, although I'm personally not that keen on laptops that huge.
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Steven Hunter
Unless #
"The sticker [is] attached to both battery and optical drive so it'll tear if anyone tries the maneouvre."
Unless you have a razor blade, a hairdryer, and some patience.
Plus I dunno about the UK, but in the US "warranty void if removed" stickers are not enforceable because this is an anti-trust violation (IIRC).
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Anonymous Coward
12800mAh yes, but voltage? #
The important part you neglect to mention is this battery pack is only two cells - 7.4V, for a total of 95Wh, and therefore in the same class as the average 9 cell battery for any laptop that offers one.
But what the hell right? 12,800mAh is a nice big number!
Posted Friday 20th February 2009 23:25 GMT
Anonymous Coward
Ooooooooh... ve haf a spellin mistake... #
The German wording has a missing letter... I wonder who spell-checked that strip.
Mary, time to call in the goon squad.
Posted Saturday 21st February 2009 00:44 GMT
Ian R
You think the German is bad... #
... the French says "do not remove the drumkit"
Posted Saturday 21st February 2009 00:44 GMT
raving angry loony
@tony smith re: Stiles #
What else should a person be thinking about while posting comments from the pub??
Posted Saturday 21st February 2009 15:55 GMT
Anonymous Coward
@C Hill - Shielding #
They can cut back on shielding for the battery, it won't make a bit of difference, since when does a battery providing DC need to be shielded?
Posted Saturday 21st February 2009 15:55 GMT
Richard
What's the issue with replaceable batteries #
I've owned perhaps a dozen laptops, and I've never replaced the battery on any of them. I've taken the battery out of a couple of them, but that was just to see that it was possible.
About the 17" laptop itself: I own an older model 17" MBP that I essentially got "for free" (list price at the time was around £2000, but I got it in lieu of expenses from a company I worked at). It is huge and weighs a lot, and the battery life on it is about 1 hour, so you don't really use it unless you are within range of a power outlet. The screen is great but the laptop runs pretty hot and it's so heavy that you can't comfortably have it on your knee. I classify it as more of a "luggable desktop" rather than a laptop.
Jesus-Steve icon, obviously!
Posted Saturday 21st February 2009 15:55 GMT
Robert E A Harvey
@Ian R #
But the normal french word for battery sounds like a painful medical condition.
Paris - I somehow associate her with a pain in the raes
Posted Saturday 21st February 2009 15:55 GMT
Adam C
@Steven Hunter #
If you want to point a hairdryer at a lithium ion battery (Which has previously been known to explode), be my guest.
Just be sure to include me in your will yeah? :-)
Flame icon, naturally..
Posted Sunday 22nd February 2009 21:07 GMT
Clint Sharp
Nice. #
So when the battery gets recalled, you have to send the entire machine.
Still, 12AH. You could jump start your wallet with that after Jobs had finished sucking it dry.
Paris, Warranty sticker well and truly broken I think.
Posted Sunday 22nd February 2009 21:10 GMT
Anonymous Coward
@ Richard #
You've been very lucky with your laptops then - although the fact you've had about 12 suggests you replace then fairly often - possibly before they require a new battery. I manage hundreds of laptops at work which we often buy in batches of say 20.
Recently over half of a single batch's batteries required replacing within the first 1.5 years (and pretty much all of them within 2) - they were'nt not necessarily holding the required charge - but they actually reported that they needed replacing and you couldn't use the laptops without a stupid message appearing on screen telling you they need replacing. I could have just left them and hoped it was a faulty warning - but I couldn't take the risk Fortunately these were removable and replaceable by myself otherwise it would have been a real headache getting them all sorted (and probably cost massively over the odds too).
A laptop battery is normally only under warranty for a year, and an extended battery warranty costs a lot - there's probably a reason for that!!
Posted Sunday 22nd February 2009 21:42 GMT
Anonymous Coward
Paris #
Going off topic here, but what the heck is this program about Paris and a British Best Friend, I've seen about 20 seconds of the program and she keeps referring to "BBF", who the hell commissioned this rubbish on British Television? I think she needs to grow up a bit.
I have visions of her being asked "What's the capital of the United States of America?" and her replying "Toronto", kinda like Jade Goody and the question about Wales.
I associate Paris with cucumbers...but the least said about that the better.
Posted Monday 23rd February 2009 11:22 GMT
Peter Kay
@'it'll be long out of warranty by the time the battery dies' #
Not if you're doing things properly, it won't. Intensively used laptops can kill the battery within a couple of years - sometimes even less (this would be why some manufacturers have a 3 year laptop warranty but only a 1 year battery warranty...).
In any case, if you've spent a decent amount of money on either a new or reconditioned with warranty laptop, you would be an utter lunatic not to keep extending the warranty. Apple has Applecare, other manufacturers let you add on n years at a time to the warranty. Laptops for all their shinyness are slow, unreliable and expensive to fix as compared to a desktop.
Posted Monday 23rd February 2009 16:28 GMT
Lottie
How long? #
How long until we see replica stickers for sale on ebay "for entertainment only"?
Replace the battery, slap on a replica sticker, waranty still intact.
Posted Monday 23rd February 2009 16:28 GMT
Big Bear
@Peter Kay #
Or do what some people do... take the battery out when on mains...
Errr.... ooops.
Posted Monday 23rd February 2009 16:28 GMT
Steve
The all important VOLTAGE #
Yes this battery may be 12.8AH, but as AC has already said, it is only 7.4V. This is the equivalent energy capacity of a 6.4AH 14.8V battery, the typical capacity of those being about 4.5AH.
The 12.8AH battery has good capacity, but it's by no means as huge as the article makes it seem.
Posted Tuesday 24th February 2009 11:13 GMT
Anonymous Coward
link to the battery kool aid #
for the batteryTards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKhJc9MMcKQ
Posted Wednesday 25th February 2009 22:09 GMT
David Halko
Reduce That Voltagage More!!! @Steve & @Coward #
If the system does not normally need more than 7.2 volts, then why is more voltage needed?
I have not seen a whole lot of CPU's and peripherals require 12 volts. Laptop hard drives will often run with only 5v now.
This being said, a properly designed system that does not require more volts does not need a battery that supplies more voltage - if the vendor built in a 12 volt battery, it is a waste, since 3.8 volts would just be used to generate heat through step-down circuitry!
Some time in the future, I would hope to see batteries using 3.6 volts with 24 Amps... to get some real life expectancy and further reduce heat production!
Posted Wednesday 25th February 2009 22:09 GMT
David Halko
Reduce That Voltagage More!!! @Steve & @Coward #
Correction: 4.8 volts would be wasted
Posted Thursday 26th February 2009 10:10 GMT
Steve
@ David Halko #
Please note, neither of us stated or hinted that more voltage is needed. What we were saying is that the current capacity alone doesn't reflect the energy carrying capacity of the battery.
PS: I take it you don't know what a switching supply is? There is no wasted voltage (or power). For example: a switching supply can take 14V, output 2.8V at 10 amps, while only draw 2 amps (imagine a DC transformer). That's why batteries of higher voltages can be used.
This topic is closed for new posts.